Dear fellow 12k central govt officers, there was a gross injustice done to us by way of introducing PB4 with staring basic pay as 39400. By doing so the difference of Rs.2300 between two adjacent grade officers of pre-revised 12K and 14.3 basics has become a huge Rs.17000 in the revised pay and Rs.25000 in the revised gross salary.
to discuss this issue in detail and find a way out to reach administrative heads of the govt. we need to gather. hence this blog is initiated.
kindly take part in this healthy and useful blogging
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Dear Fellow, I fully agree with this logical post regarding 12K dipute. I also add some points in favour, that when 8K in PB-2&3 then why not 12K in PB-3&4 likewire, in ICAR, after three Years.Morover the logic of newly appointed workers will also suffer more, my suggestion is that the whole Grade Pay may be added in 8K, 10k and 12k after appointment/promotion not only difference of grade pay.The other Main point also want to mention uniform multifying factor in fixatation in 6th CPC. I personaly congratulate to Mr Salve to start a common plate form to all 6th CPC sufferer. thanks to all join with us..
ReplyDeletePRAMOD
Lt Col who were equivalent to Deputy Secretary/SO(D)/Second in command in para Mili etc were elevated to PB4 with 8000GP as that was core demand of Army. this has created huge gap between once equal ranks. The pay difference is unthinkable to logic minds. GoM have elevated lt col to PB4 with 8000 GP. But huge difference in salary as well lt col elevated to the next Pay band leaving other equals far down was painful. At least other 12000-16500 should have been elevated to Pb4 with 7600 Gp which would have left other 12000-16500 less fuming. But as the GoM committee was specifically constituted for looking into army's demand others in 12000-16500 might not have been under the purview. But in retrospect a correction should have already taken place but it has not. But we should hope that this correction will happen in the immediate future. that is, it may not take any more time. Fast track committee or anomaly commiteee or some other logic initiative which must have been already in the pipeline may resolve the issue. But if anybody have any latest pl. keep posting here. Whether the same GP being extended is happening or not at least elevation to PB4 will takes place before too long. As long as the GP is kept below 8000 army will have nothing to complain. But reducing the colossal gap has to happen essentially
ReplyDeletedear friends, in a democratic setup, you wont get anything unless you cry, demand and protest. In the case of Lt.cols they put up a mass protest by not drawing their pay hike inspite of appeal by PM. also their heads were whole heartedly supported their demand.
ReplyDeleteNow what we can do to get our due. please discuss.
I expect more number of people to join this blog.
yaar aap log army ke bare mein kya bakwas kar rahe ho. Inspite of being a direct class one entry 90 percent of army officers never reach the grade pay of 10000 where as all other class one officer reach to GP 10000 in just 16 years. it is the biggest injustice to army officers and you are talking about them
ReplyDeleteyou ask for what ever you want but do'nt compare with army officers
Since govt. has allowed some departments to place 12k people in PB4, it is not understood why staff in the same rank in other department should suffer. Then what for the anomaly committee is there. Why ? We people are wasting our time for such a cause due to some body's fault. I personaly feel that there should be equal treatment for all.
ReplyDeleteIn think the demand for taking 12K to PB-4 is solely due to the huge pay fixation differen ce in Pb-3 & PB-4. This is solely becuase of different MF in pay fixation formula.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, if the government takes a decision to grant equal MF to all PB-1 to PB-4, the problem of 12K would also be solved.
If they do not, then accept the fact that somepay scale has to be the cut-off for PB-3 & Pb-4. Now it is 12K, or it may 10K or 8K or any other pay scale.
I presume people are happy with what they got. thats why nobody bothers to takepart in this blog.
ReplyDeleteunless you cry you wont get anything. peple are happy by seeing the 5% DA order and 60%second instmnt arrears order. I dont think anybody do a calculation including the huge incometax outgo,
pl. take my case.I am in 12k grade and my prerevised basic is 13875. my second instalmnt arrears I got in hand is 1.15laks after deducting tax. But my tax liablility this year is 2.0 laks. how anyone can feel happy for getting arrears?
adding to that is the artificial gap created between PB3 and PB4. we are not against uniform MF,but the 12k issue is simple and solvable, since some depts have put 12k officers in PB4.
above all the SPC must bring out a paper on what
justification they widened the gap between 12000 and 14300 to a huge 21200 and 39700. ther must be some reason why they have recommended such huge gap. If it is a mistake the govt is responsible to take corrective action.
to solve this issue what we need is the support of all 12k officers.
I am surprised why many are not reacted to this blog is two reasons.
ReplyDelete(1) many not aware of this blog and feeling that these blogs can not help them.
(2) As i said earlier, if every one gets, I also will get it.
kittu23.
Dear all,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry for my late response to this blog. I am one who really shouted every day for the 12K to PB4 and I am late here.
The reason for 12K to PB4 is justified because of the following reasons:
(1) In Govt the organization will ask certain no of posts in particular cadre with a long vision and organized duties to them.
(2) Then DOPT after the recommendations of the Min of Finance, will sanction these posts and there after the department will advertise.
(3) Look in the event of super annuation of an employee, the post of on which he/she became permanent will only readvertise for recruitment. It is then proved that the dept on their request only DOPT sanctioned these posts. Similarly 12 K posts too sanctioned to each dept.
(4) If we degrade the post at this time there could be two reasons (1) the govt might have thought that the 12K post asked is not required at that cadre at this time (2) higher assignment to the people who were placed in PB4.
NONE happened in our case. Simply the Government ignored the 12K and kept us at bay with 30,000 low from the 14.3
Besides some organizations placed 12K to PB4, which is a welcome decision, but what we demand is all the 12K personal should be placed in PB4.
One can justify the gap between 12K to PB3 and 14.3 to PB4, BUT NO ONE CAN JUSTIFY THAT SOME ORGANISATIONS 12K TO PB3 AND OTHER ORGANISAITONS 12K TO PB4, WHICH IS NOT NATURAL JUSTICE TOO.
ALL THE 12K PEOPLE NOW REACT TO THE HIGHEST AND SHOUT, EMAIL AND APPEAL TO UPGRADE.
REMEMBER, ALL THE 12K PEOPLE ALSO IN THE OPINION THAT AN UNIFORM MF SHOULD BE IN PLACE.
PLEASE DONOT MIX IT UP.
Regards,
i believe in this blog some one mentioning that defence personal have separate issues. I with heart have highest regard with the defense personal, but I am sure that they too will agree that all the 12K should be placed in PB4.
ReplyDeleteYs I do agree with all the officers in 12K fighting for justice i.e to push 12K to PB4.As many of the officers in the same grade earlier have been pushed to PB4 in other departments like Army( L Cols),UGC (Readers) and Scientist 'D's in some of the organizations.Such things should not happen.There should be uniformity among the similar grade officers whether in pre-revised or in post-revised.This anomoly has to be addressed and set right.
ReplyDeletedear friends,
ReplyDeleteI suggest the following action points:
1. Let us collect the order copies of the depts which have put 12k officers in PB4.
2. let us collect e-mail Ids of max nymber of 12k officers in all known depts(some body may suggest how can we do this)
3. let us draft an official request addressed to the respective dept heads and forward it to all 12k officers.
4.on a single day we must post this draft mail to the dept head with the enclosures of office orders of the depts which have put 12k officers in PB4.
I welcome suggestions to modify these plan of actions.
Dear Fellows,
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with the 6th pay commission dispute. I also add some points in favor for referring to anomalies committee created by govt. of India,
(1) That when 8K in PB-2&3 then why not 12K in PB-3&4 likewise, in ICAR, after three Years in PB-3..
(2) That the logic in appointing newly workers, They will also suffer more,
(I) My suggestion is that the whole Grade Pay may be added in appointment/promotion. Not only difference of grade pay.
(II) Every time in time scale promotion instead of adding one increment the new grade pay may be added.
(3) The other point also wants to mention uniform multiplying factor in the fixations of all pay bands, from 1 to 5 as recommended by 6th CPC.
PRAMOD
All the 12K people should be placed in 37400-67000 scale of pay and grade pay may be different for 12-16.5 as 7600 and 12-18K may be 8000. Remember Scale of pay at initial stage in the both the 12K is same and hence it is natural justice that in the VI pay too, it should be same, what ever the reasons.
ReplyDeleteOne need to write to PM/President/MPs on this to rise in House of Parliament.
Why people are hesitating to raise their voice here ? Dear friends, show your views here
ReplyDeleteFitment tables according to MHRD Notification (18 Aug 2009)Assistant Professor
ReplyDelete12000-420-18300 PB-3 (15600-39100)
12000 22320 30320 30000 38000
12420 23110 31110 30000 38000
12840 23890 31890 30000 38000
13260 24670 32670 30000 38000
13680 25450 33450 30000 38000
14100 26230 34230 30000 38000
14520 27010 35010 30000 38000
14940 27790 35790 30000 38000
15360 28570 36570 30000 38000
15780 29360 37360 30000 38000
16200 30140 38140 30140 38140
16620 30920 38920 30920 38920
17040 31700 39700 31700 39700
17460 32480 40480 32480 40480
17880 33260 41260 33260 41260
18300 34040 42040 34040 42040
Pre-revised basic VI pc Band Pay (column * 1.86,rounded to the higher 10)
Total VI pc
(left column +gradevipay=8000)
Band Pay
(IIT notification)
Band Pay+AGP=8000
An example of a shifted table (with differential pay, unlike the clubbed
or bunched one prescribed by MHRD) has been shown as an example
in the case of Professors (see the last page)
Associate Professor
16400-450-20000 PB-4 (37400-67000)
16400 39690 49190 42800 52300 49690
16850 40890 50390 42800 52300 50890
17300 40890 50390 42800 52300 50890
17750 42120 51620 42800 52300 52120
18200 42120 51620 42800 52300 52120
18650 43390 52890 43390 52890 53390
19100 43390 52890 43390 52890 53390
19550 44700 54200 44700 54200 54700
20000 44700 54200 44700 54200 54700
20450 46050 55550 46050 55550 56050
20900 46050 55550 46050 55550 56050
21400 47440 56940 47440 56940 57440
Registrar in
IIT
Pre-revised
basic
VI pc Band
Pay (Table
S-26)
Total VI pc
(left column
+grade
pay=9500)
Band Pay
(IIT
notification)
Band Pay+
AGP=9500
Band Pay+
AGP=10000
(UGC Not,
Table 7)
Professor
18400-500-22400 PB-4 (37400-67000)
Band Pay*
18400 44700 55200 48000 58500 56700 48120 60120
18900 46050 56550 48000 58500 58050 48120 60120
19400 46050 56550 48000 58500 58050 49930 61930
19900 47440 57940 48000 58500 59440 49930 61930
20400 47440 57940 48000 58500 59440 51790 63790
20900 48870 59370 48870 59370 60870 51790 63790
21400 48870 59370 48870 59370 60870 53700 65700
21900 50340 60840 50340 60840 62340 53700 65700
22400 51850 62350 51850 62350 63850 55670 67670
22900 53410 63910 53410 63910 65410 57700 69700
23400 55020 65520 55020 65520 67020 59800 71800
Example of Shifted
Fitment Table(Table A3
from Federation)
Pre-revised
Basic
VI pc Band
Pay (Table
S-29)
Total VI pc
(left column
+grade
pay=10500)
Band Pay
(IIT
notification)
Band Pay+
AGP=10500
Band Pay+
AGP=12000
Band Pay+
AGP=12000
it is a great loss to all 12K others. Beware and alert now. It is NOW or NEVER situation
ReplyDeletebye
The issue simply losts the focus. The basic issue is when lt Col have been elevated to PB4 with GP8000, least the equals should have been elevated tp Pb4 with GP7600 so that minimum justice is done. army had core demand to getit elevated to Pb4. A GoM has taken the deicsion to elvate them and put them above DS/Second in command in Paramili etc. But later other equals(12-16500) should have been elevated to PB4 which would have reduced the hurt the 12-16500 are now feeling
ReplyDeleteno one gives suggestion for future course of action. see the faculty of IIT,IIM. are they not fighting for their cause? why not we and why cant we? please friends try to form a formal association of 12k officers and fight for the right of getting PB4.
ReplyDeletedear friends, both fifth and sixth pay commission had favoured the top working class. upto fourth pay commission, DA in higher pay was 60% and in fifth pay commission DA was made uniform in all grades. now in sixth, they have given higher MF for for higher grades. thus continuous discrimination with lower class poeple. it seems that govt is not working for amm admi, it is the govt for khas admi.
ReplyDeletedear friend, as i earlier suggested in gconnect shout, we should ask the govt for the basis of different multiplication factor, shifting 14000, 16000 officers and some 12000 officers to PB4 under RTI and based on its response we should go to the court. any of our union can file a case in court in this regard. if some body/union takes initiative, officers from different departments will contribute happily for this cause. so finacially there will not be any problem in heiring the top quality lawyers. so dear friends, try to rope in an association or union and go to court.
yes mr.surinder has come out with agood suggestion.as he said finacially everyone would contribute. but taking out the initiative start from RTI only the issue. many of the unions are for the group c and d officials. we dont have any forum for 12k grade alone, why cant we start a new all india association. I suggest any outsider like a lawer can do such initiative and we can ask people to join such association. friends may suggest in this method of approach..
ReplyDeleteDear friends ,
ReplyDeleteAfter studying the Sixth pay commission, the commission has opinion that in comparison to private companies and taking average it found that in private the salary of equivalent level staff of group C, D are getting much less than the government counterpart. The staff of group B person is getting slightly more than their counterpart. The group A level and upto 12 years experience person are getting slightly less in comparission with their counterpart in private.in case of group A person with more than 12 years experience are getting much more higher salary than their counter part in private viz Director, MD, Exe. Director, chairman, vice-chairman , head of organization etc ( salary more than 5 lakh a month upto 1 to 2 crore per month. Therefore they were compensated though it does not stand nowhere in comparission. As this is already proposed by a commission so common MF for all will fail as payment of salary and wages is right of owner as per his resource and if candidate is satisfied he joins govt. not satisfied he may opt to private sector.
Mr Yadava,
ReplyDeleteYou have mention the things very logical and systamatic, but soory to add that the gap amongst the all pay bands , according to you semmes to logical only in PB- 1,2,and 3 but when we add PB-4, it is not logical. Do you himself satisfy the gap created in basic pay was logical, then why Govt. lower the starting limit of PB-4 to 37400/=. As I want to know in which capacity, you coundoum the things, are you a member of annammaly commette.why we ask uniform multifactor, (UMF) only due to PB-4 fixation annammaly. If you please agree with our thaught kindly again justify your reasions.
With thanks,
Mr.yadav's justification doesnt looks alright because in any pvt organisation you cant see a 50% salary difference between the very adjacent grades. something wrong is done and people are trying to justify by showing this commission that commission.
ReplyDeletethe uniform MF is the case certainly to be faught by well established forum like JCM. why they are silent. If uniform MF is not the right thing to be awarded that means the earlier fifth pay commission headed by another honble supreme court judge did any thing wrong?
If two pay commissions can have difference of opinion, why cannot there be a difference of opinion between sixth pay commission and any other judicial bench if appointed to review the sixt pay commission recommendations?
Hence it is very much apt the JCM demand with force for a uniform multiplication factor or a high level judicial bench to review the entire recommendations of SPC.
Dear Promod and Selvaraj,
ReplyDeleteI have read the report of paycommission and the first 50 pages throws light on how the commission logically decide to give its recommendations. The JCM has been counsulted and some improvement also carried out in existing report in august 2008 before implementing it. I think JCM has given nod for this and MF is no more anamoly as it is Group A officers who are on loosing side for few years until they get across to PB4 after few promotions.there has to a cut off level which was 18400 in report but modifies to 14300 as most of the independent IAS/Non-IAS director are in these scales.
Dear Yadava,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much, that you have responded well.I personaly appriciate your sprit, but Sir when we are talking about 14400 scale, it is OK, then How 12000 justify the diffrence in between these two scales, before and after 6th CPC.As you mention that in primotion it will take long time, when individual touches the basic very near, but when compare with newly appointed person, it may lot of difference aprox. 25000/= is this seems to justify.Kindly inlighten us for future satisfaction. Again thanks.
Dear Promod ,
ReplyDeleteAs you have asked why Govt. lowered the starting limit of PB-4 to 37400/=. From 39400/- . I think this was done to adjust the 14300 and 16400 scales in pb4. As per the original report there was no overlapping in the pay band of pb3 and pb4.But as head of institution in many places IAS/non IAS were in 14300 scales and as head he was given this scale in pb4. there fore in general way all scales of 14300 and 16400 were moved to pb4 with 37400/- In case where organised service are concerned they may easily move to pb4 in certain time frame (depending upon IAS , IPS ETC) in other central services where promotion policy is different than organised services they may get slower promotion and may or may not reach PB4 before retirement due to vacancy based promotion.In Scientific Department where FCS policy is implemented they may reach pb4 easily as this is time based promotion policy not vacancy based.wherever Entry level is gropu A the person may easily go up to JS level but when he comes to group A level on promotion after 25 to 30 years of service from group B, he will never reach to PB4, therefore in group A level two band has been created so that in service direct Recruitee may be elevated one band above where he is recruited. As you have said why there is huge difference between the two bands PB3 and PB4, I think in this way - it is a promotion giving you for your faithfulness to govt so that you do not run away and join some private company.To Encourage Talent in Administraion and technical field after certain years of service if one is not rewarded then he may switch to private company.Think of those who are in line for their promotion in PB4 waiting to get this reward.Oraganised services beat the toughest competition to enter in service and after gaining experience they are rewarded this pb4 band which is much low in comparision with MNC’s ( 12 to 14 years exp MBA in MNC get 100000/- to 200000/- per month, starting MBA in ICICI or HDFC gets 45000 to 60000/-)
Here IAS or any central services get this in 16 to 18 years of service that to 37400/- basic with total to 70000/- to 80000/- is that not meagre peanut—but government has less resources and it tries to Adjust between resource and staff and talent. Now See the pay commission has given option to retire with full pension after 20 years where previously it was 33 years all have got huge benfit. But the govt. loses, but same time talent and exp. Person may utilise this thing that after 20 years he start his pension after leaving govt. job and start private job or start his own business.
( Please read first 50 pages of Sixth Pay Commission Report, the logic on which this is written and concluded)
Dear Yadava ji,
ReplyDeleteVery very thanks for your logical and nice response, but I want to add something that, when we are talking about recommendation of CPC, then only four pay band was recommended- one running band each for group B and C , whereas 2 running pay bands for group A posts. Originally it was the concept that the scales 8K, 10K, 12k, 14K and16K in PB-3 and rest of all scale were in PB-4. When they upgrade some scale in Pb-4 then automatically all anomalies comes in Pb-3, having only three scales 8k, 10k and 12k, and then the concept of running scale is destroyed.
My suggestion is that only one pay band combining with Pb-3 and 4 will solve the problem, as you have already accepted that the promotion in group- A officers after 12 to 16 years of service want some reward.
Dear Promod ,
ReplyDeleteIn original pay commission report the lowest to highest pay ratio of 1:12 has been suggested and JCM has also suggested the same. There for 6660 min in PB1 and 80000 as max was decided.The Apex scale of 80000/- was separated amd cabinet Secreatary scale was suggested as 90000/- . PB1 starting from 4860 to 20200 in 50 years of span with 2.5% yearly increment.PB2 starts from 8700 to 34800 @ 2.5% yearly increment for 40 years.PB3 start from 15600 to 39100 @2.5 % for 32 years. The PB4 starts from 39200 to 67000 @2.5 % yearly increment for 20 years. Initially this was the adjustment for 1:12 ratio of min : max pay scales. After modification the min. of pay scales became 7000 while max remains same at 80000/- ( with grade pay added) with PB1 starting from 5200 to 20200 @3% yearly increment , PB2 starts 9300 to 34800 @3% increment, PB3 starts from 15600 to 39100 @3% increments and PB4 starting from 37400 to 67000 @3% increments. Suitable changes were done only to adjust the 14300 – 18300, 16400- 20000 where previously on 14300 – 22400 was there. Because starting of both scales were same hence they were moved in PB4 and without disturbing the starting of PB4 they lowered the starting from 39200 to 37400 to accommodate these scales. I don’t think that it was unjustified as same starting scale of 14300 – 22400 was in PB4 but 14300 – 18300 was in PB3 and even 16400 – 20000 with higher initial start was also in PB3. More over theses scales were performing many places as independent heads.
Dear Yadava ji,
ReplyDeleteyour justification given in my response was authentic and fully covenesing, but soory to add that upto pb-3 the multifying factor(UMF) is 1.86 but in pb-4 it enhanched above 2.65. this is the factor which decide the pb-4 as super grade. My request to annammaly commette is that either they decide UMF or rectify the DA rate applicable to PB-4 was reduce as was in 5th CPC.My view also limited to same pattern for all govt. institution, because some have the 12k into pb-4 directly and some after 3 to 4 years after in 12k grade, is this justify.
I want to refer this package of PSEB employees of Punjab state, to all of you to see the justifications in the pay bands anomalies, as they have rectified in their fixation. This reflects the logic behind their fixation which is tally with our thoughts, and the same we want to communicate to central government.
ReplyDeletePSEB employees get higher pay scales as diwali gift.
The group 1 and 2 employees in pre revised scales has been placed in PB-1 band with scale of 5100-10680, group 3 to 9 have been given 6400-20200 scale under PB-2, group10 to 17 employees has been placed in PB-3 with scale of 10900-34800.The employees under group 18 to 23 has been placed under PB-4 with scale of 16650-39100.various senior officers under group 23 and 24 has been placed in PB-5 with scale of 41300-67000.
Dear fellows,
ReplyDeleteI think that, the logic given by Mr Lal Chandra Yadava is very convenceing and reality based, and everybody is agree with them.So no boby is commenting. I also little bit satisfied with his thaught. I personaly request to Mr Yadava, kindly advice us what will we do regarding UMF and 12K.